-continued from
http://www.libertynewsforum.com/cgi-bin/news/YaBB.pl?num=1218186154

The topic named "Russia invades Georgia" couldn't continue "Georgia attacked South Osetia". They mean opposite things.

Quote from rotaivA_USK on Aug 15^th, 2008, 1:08pm:

 
Yeah, but at least it does involve Georgia...

Quote from rotaivA_USK on Aug 15^th, 2008, 1:16pm:

 
 
Tell me about it.
 
By the by, I think a democratic Georgia free of Russian influence is very much in our interest, and we should apply our diplomatic pressure, and possibly economic pressure as well, to support this.  But dang, having the Georgians attack their own separatist province (which does appear to have been the case) sure doesn't make it easier, and gives the Russians a minimal amount of cover to flex their muscle.
 
And being as Georgia is right on their doorstep, there's no practical way we can use any kind of military force without gravely escalating the situation.
 
I think that about covers it, unless somebody has current info on the snowpack stability and avalanche risk in the Caucasus.

Red, Your last post was excellent.  

Quote from yaro on Aug 15^th, 2008, 12:59pm:

 
 
Since the Georgian troops have been removed from So. Ossetia, and never threatened Abkhazia (another entry point for Russia) why have the Russian troops not left, or returned to some spot outside of the sovereign territory of Georgia?
 
Is your government so afraid of a free people that they use slaves like you to do their bidding?

How "democratic" are they in Georgia? I have my sincere doubts about our appreciation for the Jeffersonian democracy of Georgia.

Escape from the truth and delete users? Democracy?

NEOCONS, talk your shit while you wrap yourself in the flag.  We're not even done with the ragheads because of our PC agression and now we want to take on Russia?  You have to talk your shit, because your goofy president, your ditzy secretary of State and open border, Juan McCain have the unmitigated gall to utter the same BS, that is telling Russia that they do not invade sovereign countries.   So what 's the message to Russia, do what I say but don't do as I do because we are the imperial US? I couldn't possibly add anything to the very eloquent posts Bergeist used to explain exactly what happened over there.  It is the fault of the UNAMERICAN buffoons who control our government.  They do not represent what is American. Let me make this absolutely clear. I am a true American, who has served honorably in the US Armed Forces, who gets chills during the playing of our National Anthem, who truly supports America and it's military by not wanting them to be in harm's way unnecessarily for no other purpose than to defend Israeli interests. I support America first, and ... I WANT MY COUNTRY BACK !!!  
 
 
Quote from Berggeist on Aug 8th, 2008, 11:12pm:
Harry,  
With all due respect, and that is not cliché, you have digested too much neo-con propaganda.  The United States, the EU and NATO have made the first moves; Russia has only reacted.  The internal structure of Russia is absolutely none of our business.  The leaders of Russia have decided to reject the modern ideologies: Marxism and classical liberalism.  They are looking to the strength, back before the Communists, to the Russian soul, to its language and to its faith - Christianity in the form of Eastern Orthodoxy.  This is, in fact, good for us.  They are not attempting to export an ideology; they are merely interested in projecting power in terms of their national identity.  We, on the other hand, are the ones exporting ideology: "democracy," "equal rights," etc.  We have been making the world "safe for democracy" through the violent and destructive barrel of a gun long enough.  We need to get out of that business and find our own souls, including our national identity and build our policies around them rather than around the abstract myths of post-Enlightenment liberalism which include "democracy," "equality" and an abstract notion of "rights."  
 
 
Quote from Berggeist on Aug 9th, 2008, 12:38am:
I would suggest, given the overall picture, that the South Ossetians and the Russians are right.  We do not have to be right or wrong on the issue or the current war.  We need to keep our mouths shut and stay completely out of it.   If we want to act with moral courage, we should be the ones offering, in total neutrality, to broker the peace.  Telling the Russians to get out of a country which borders them and which has historical ties to them while we have military advisers and planners there and while we have advocated that country's entry into NATO does not make us very neutral or objective.  
 
 
Quote from Berggeist on Aug 10th, 2008, 8:16pm:
No one on these fora, to my knowledge at least, is cheering against America.  George Bush, Bill Clinton, the Republican Party, the Democratic Party, the haughty elites and even the general government in Washington are NOT America.  Quite often, many if not all of the aforementioned, work counter to the interests of America.  The states and the respective peoples thereof, representing different traditions and customs, pre-existed even the union of constitutional and federated republics, i.e. THESE United States; thus, America is older than even these United States.    

Red if your rant is over and you're done making out with Berg could you point out who these conservatives are who are calling for war with Russia?

Quote from FreedomLover on Aug 15^th, 2008, 8:50pm:

 
The neocons, which of course, are not conservatives, have found a new boogeyman.  Because they can't find any Al Qaida while fighting them over there so we don't have to fight them here, we need a new and more powerful and indeed, a visible enemy. Rush was getting tired playing parodies all day long everyday.  He needs some new material and this is it. Get out the war drums so all the neocons can get in step.

Quote from RED on Aug 15^th, 2008, 9:08pm:

 
So the names again are?.......

Quote from cclezel on Aug 15^th, 2008, 9:01pm:

 
Where exactly did I say you're calling for war?  You're putting words in my mouth.  But being over there is asking for war.  We don't belong over there.  Everything you say, all your posts, are all pro war and warlike on this topic or over your numerous Iraq posts.  And now, we see you're a cold warrior, too. Who's of thought?  You are a war monger.  You're a lockstep neocon who can't see the forest for the trees.  You can't step out of your mold.  Playing with Russia is not a good idea. This is not a video game.  We trespassed into their sphere of influence.  Limbaugh does nothing but carry water for Bush and his gang of crooks, as do all the other talk show hosts.  You people are nuts as the liberals.

It's funny you accuse people of being Rush locksteppers when it's seems you're a Michael Savage lockstepper.... you've taken Savage's hatred of Rush to heart and therefore think you're obligated to hate anyone who may (or may not, I don't listen to Rush for instance) listen to Rush.

Quote from RED on Aug 15^th, 2008, 9:21pm:

Funny thing is you deny saying I called for war and then proceed to claim I'm a warmonger.  It seems you can't help bet step in the shit even when you see it.  Just because I do not cower like you do when the bear flexes does not mean I am advocating war.  I see no reason to hide under the covers and piss my pants like you and a few other liberals on this forum do.  Reverting back to the Cold War by ignoring and turning a blind eye will lead us to a confrontation whether you think so or not.
 
  Ignoring this will not make it go away like the five year olds who see a monster in their room at night.  It requires COURAGE and WILL to stand up to thugs and bullies who think they can do whatever they want to whomever they want.  So fear not old man, we have a new generation of kids who will stand up to what is right.  We did not have to go to war when the USSR collapse, but we stood our ground and the bear backed down.  COwering promises no resolution or fix.

Oh, Puhleeze.  How do you guys walk around your balls are so big.  Stephen Colbert talks about you guys.  It takes no courage whatsoever to throw little Georgia inot the meat grinder and watch Russia tear it up, because you have an idiotic President and even DUMBER Secretary of State.  They missed out on the cast of Dumb and Dumber.  And where the NSA and CIA was in this debacle is beyond me.  Oh, and the much vaunted Israeli intelligence.

Quote from LadyLawyerII on Aug 15^th, 2008, 9:50pm:

Meds time!

Quote from cclezel on Aug 15^th, 2008, 9:52pm:

Is there anything that cannot be blamed on Rush Limbaugh?

Quote from LadyLawyerII on Aug 15^th, 2008, 9:50pm:

Well if Stephen Colbert says so....

Quote from Bert Evil Neocon #1 on Aug 15^th, 2008, 9:55pm:

 
As in guys who incessantly have to talk about their manhood are a big joke.  

Quote from RED on Aug 15^th, 2008, 10:02pm:

Good, then you will like what I have to say.  You are full of shit.  You come here on the forum and make absurd statements and then fail to back them up with any quotes.  I hope I was direct enough for you like Savage.    When you can finally grow a set of balls and post exactly who it is advocating war over Georgia then you will have to view you as another over the top looney tunes.

Quote from cclezel neo-con, warmongerer, on Aug 15^th, 2008, 10:05pm:

He only comes here so he can do the Juan McCain joke...

Quote from cclezel neo-con, warmongerer, on Aug 15^th, 2008, 10:07pm:

CHECK!

Quote from RED on Aug 15^th, 2008, 10:02pm:

 
First of all I didn't say I asked you anything.... I said you didn't reply to what I said. I asked you a question the second time. But thanks for answering.... it all makes a lot more sense now.

Quote from RED on Aug 15^th, 2008, 9:21pm:

 
 
What kind of mental BS is this?
 
You have Russia wanting to put missles back in Cuba, forming alliances with Venezuela, and Argentina, assisting Iran, and then you whine we "trespassed" into their "sphere of influence".
 
With your mentality it would be wrong to for the US form allliances in that part of the world.
 
So, you think Russia should be allowed to threaten Poland, The Ukraine, or any country they might like to in that part of the world, and we are supposed to sit here with our thumbs stuck up our arses while Russia takes over that part of the world?
 
Sounds like the same ideology we suffered when the USSR was strutting its stuff, and Hitler was roaming the world.
 
Personally, if I were President I would tell Russia to get their military out of Georgia within 24 hours, and if they did not do so I would  drop a bomb on each military unit they have there.
 
It is time the US showed some backbone in supporting its allies, not the yellow stripe you have growing up your spine.

Quote from LadyLawyerII on Aug 16^th, 2008, 1:11am:

 
 
 
The Russains advised the Iraqi's on WMD so now they are advising Iranians on how to make Nuclear bombs...so whats new?
 
I don't think we've advised the Georgians on Nuclear technology or WMD biological agents/gas.
 
 
Billy

Quote from cclezel neo-con, warmongerer, on Aug 15^th, 2008, 10:05pm:

 
Hey, cclezel neo-con, warmongerer, you're mentally ill.  You keep asserting I made such a statement when I never did. But it's only a silly diversion on your part because you don't want to admit that this administration stuck it's nose where it didn't belong, and Putin cut it off. What a bunch of incompetent assholes.  Of course, it was the stupid Bush Administration who uses American soldiers and citizens as pawns in their world power chess game.  And the same people who gave us Bush, want to give is the doddering old man. He says yesterday, "We’re all Georgians now." Meaning—what? An attack by Russia on Georgia is tantamount to an attack by Russia on the United States, requiring that we declare war on Russia, invade her, and conquer her? McCain will be 72 years old this month, he's been in the House and Senate for a generation, yet he talks like some brainless hothead. The man is devoid of any intellectual process. Could there be a prospective president less thoughtful, more feebleminded than the Bushcon? With McCain, we're looking at him.

Quote from Old_Trapper on Aug 16^th, 2008, 12:46am:

 
Well, frankly, that's nuts.  It's time to drop back, from these idiotic policies of policing the world when we can't afford to, or at least charge the protectees for our labors, and punt.

At this moment in reality, the US is technically Insolvent as a Nation.
 
We require an infusion of 2 Billion $$$ every 24 hours (of Foreign cash) just to meet out daily fiscal obligations.
 
We have a Trade Imbalance of 2 Billion $$ per day much of it due to our insatiable addiction to foreign energy. Our Achilles Heel and all our potential adversaries are well aware of this fact.
 
Our military forces are stretched to the limit.
 
We have no strategic ground forces left in Reserve.
 
The Army is calling for an additional 17+ Billion $$ per year after the end of hostilities to "reset" its worn out equipment.
 
The US does not have the financial or military means to meet the Bear in his backyard and Putin knows this fact well.
 
Ladies and Gentlemen of LNF it would appear to this old retired First Sergeant's eyes that:
 
Putin is more a student of military and political literature than Bush, Cheney or Saakashvili.
 
What value is a Harvard Degree compared with the training and experience of a KGB Colonel?
 
Putin:
 
Remains in possession of the field at dusk. His soldiers are there with rifles and bayonets.
 
Humiliates the West. Especially GWB/Condi and NATO.
 
Threatens the BTC Pipeline. He who controls the flow of oil gets to make all the rules.
 
Owns real estate south of the Caucasus.
 
Remains a hero to the Russian People – after years of humiliation. Gives a once proud people a reason to once again smile and have hope for their future.
 
Moves one step closer to the title of Putin the Great.
 
Believes he and Medevev were elected/appointed to see to the interests of Russia, not the world.
 

 
"There's no room for debate on this matter. The United Nations Security Council has adopted numerous resolutions concerning Georgia. These resolutions are based on the premise that South Ossetia and Abkhazia remain within the borders of Georgia and that their underlying conflicts will be resolved through international negotiations. These resolutions are based on the premise that South Ossetia and Abkhazia are to be considered a part of the Georgian territory, and to the extent there's conflicts they will be resolved peacefully." -- The President (point 6)
 
White House (feed)

---

Quote from yaro on Aug 16^th, 2008, 12:25pm:

You have no idea what true spiritual freedom is about.

Quote from cclezel neo-con, warmongerer, on Aug 16^th, 2008, 12:31pm:

You suppose you know the true? What makes you sure?

Quote from billy_bonney on Aug 16^th, 2008, 1:15am:

 
The Russains advised the Iraqi's on WMD which were not found but we are know it should be because Russia couldn’t do good things. Nobody could be good in the Universe because this place is ours. That’s you told just now. Did you ever thought you made a not good thing in your life? Oh Billy….

Finland is currently chair of the OSCE.
 
President of Russia expressed his support for continuing the work of the OSCE mission, strengthening its role, and stressed the readiness of the Russian side to work closely together. Dmitry Medvedev singled out promoting the practical implementation of the six principles for a conflict settlement elaborated by the presidents of Russia and France and signed by all parties concerned as the main objectives of the OSCE mission.
 
The conversation was held at the initiative of the Finnish side.
 
Kremlin

Russia and the United States grew up differently.  We should be thankful on bended knee that we had two oceans separating us from primitive tribesmen, and primitive shells, and primitive bullets.  It was bad enough as it was.  When we decided to secede, like the Baltics, we killed 625,000 men and countless civilians and burned through about a billion dollars in property counted in 1865 dollars.  So, I think our "high minded ideals" about letting go of break away republics is a little misplaced.  When we get a Christian sect that is a little different we get a country that doesn't impeach a President for Waco, we prosecute the people remaining for killing the perpetrators.  We decimate the 4th, 5th and 6th amendment at the first sign of any sort of problem on the mainland, and you talk abou the Russians with CENTURIES of being invaded as having a problem?  Look in the mirror.

Georgian's genocide stopped,but victims remained's photostream

Quote from Pepe on Aug 16^th, 2008, 2:47pm:

UN Security Council
 
Latest News

---

Article 63
1. To introduce a motion to impeach the President of Georgia, a third of the Members of Parliament must agree, in the circumstances envisaged by Article 75.2 of this constitution. The case is submitted to the Supreme Court or the Constitutional Court for judgement.
2. If the Supreme Court confirms by its judgement that the President has committed the crime adduced or the Constitutional Court confirms the President's violation of the Constitution, the Parliament by a simple majority can vote to put to a vote the impeachment of the President.
3. The President is considered impeached and removed if not less than two thirds of all the Parliament vote in favour of the motion to impeach.
4. If the Parliament does not vote within 30 days, the motion is considered dropped and introduction of the same motion is impermissible for one year.
5. Discussion of the charge brought against the President and the passing of a motion to impeach during war, state of emergency or martial law is not permitted in the Parliament.
 
Article 64
1. The right to raise the question of the impeachment of the Head of the Supreme Court, members of government, the Prosecutor General, Chairman of the Chamber of Control and Members of the Council of the National Bank in cases of violation of the Constitution, high treason, or the commission of capital crimes is vested in one third of the total number of Parliament.
2. By the procedure envisaged in Article 63.2 Parliament is authorised to remove officials listed in the first clause of this Article by the majority of the total members of Parliament. The requirements of Article 63 clause 4 extend to such cases as well.
 
Constitution of Georgia

Quote from cclezel neo-con, warmongerer, on Aug 16^th, 2008, 7:15pm:

 
I'm an optimist.

Quote from Neo_Harry on Aug 16^th, 2008, 7:19pm:

 
No, you have brains.

Quote from LadyLawyerII on Aug 16^th, 2008, 7:23pm:

Your lust for Putin is interesting.  Does your husband know?

Quote from LadyLawyerII on Aug 16^th, 2008, 7:23pm:

 
With this administration its the blind leading the blind.  
 
Did they REALLY not know this was going to happen? Was ANY warning given to georgia not to screw things up for us?
 
Where was the adult supervision this time?

Quote from LadyLawyerII on Aug 15^th, 2008, 5:07pm:

During the Jeffersonian "democracy" in America, slaves were kept in Virginia and Georgia.  
 

Quote from cclezel neo-con, warmongerer, on Aug 16^th, 2008, 1:02pm:

Not in government institutions other than the Armed Forces.  
 
Christians are banned from expressing themselves in public schools and forbidden to teach their religion there in violation of the constitutional prohibition against the federal goverment's making any law governing religion.  
 
Quote:

As long as it's in private and doesn't interfere with the secular extermination of a million American babies a year. We need immigrants to replace all those missing American children and expand the tax base.  
 
Quote:

Secularists prosecute Christians every day and put them away for breaking secular law.  
 
 

Quote from Pepe on Aug 16^th, 2008, 2:47pm:

No. Secular democrats intend to establish democratic dictatorships all over the world.  
 
They even succeeded in establishing a secular democracy in Russia while working on the Chinese commies at the same time.  
 

Quote from joe_christian on Aug 16^th, 2008, 9:23pm:

By George, how is that relevant to the price of tea in Poti?

Quote from Caterina on Aug 17^th, 2008, 3:11am:

There are both. Some are always fighting the wars of the past. They are stranded on islands. They have not updated their manuals. There will always be criminals.

Maybe it's time to rename the forum, such as "Putin - Hitler of our times"?  
You know, if earlier, I was not indifferent what you think about us. I was pained to see how people come to meetings with posters "Stop Russia", while our guys died, protecting residents Ossetia from the Georgian mercenaries. The first, who were killed were our peacekeepers - ten boys slightly older than 20 years. And then how many guys have died ...  
Now, your opinion means is nothing for me. I often laugh over your messages.  
Because people, who need protection of our country, grateful to Russia. Today, I was touched to tears in the church when the woman, whose relatives were rescued in Ossetia, put candles in memory of the dead soldiers. And when it came to us, Russian, in her words was so much gratitude.  All false and cruel comments darken front the kindness of this woman
I hope that you will never know grief that these people endured. And that went through our women whose sons have not returned home.

This is why, in Sunday's partial rerun of last November's parliamentary elections, the world's media concentrated exclusively on the prickly relations between the Georgian capital, Tbilisi, and the autonomous region of Adjara, of which Batumi is the capital. This is in spite of the fact that Adjara, unlike Abkhazia and South Ossetia, has never declared independence from Georgia. The standard-issue media fairy-tale pits a democratically elected Georgian president, Mikheil Saakashvili - who overthrew his predecessor Edward Shevardnadze in a US-backed coup last November - opposing an authoritarian regional leader in Adjara, Aslan Abashidze.
 
This is not how the Georgians see things. In an interview with a Dutch magazine, Sandra Roelofs, the Dutch wife of the new Georgian president and hence the new first lady of Georgia, explained that her husband aspires to follow in the long tradition of strong Georgian leaders "like Stalin and Beria". Saakashvili started his march on Tbilisi last November with a rally in front of the statue of Stalin in his birthplace, Gori. Unfazed, the western media continue to chatter about Saakashvili's democratic credentials, even though his seizure of power was consolidated with more than 95% of the vote in a poll in January, and even though he said last week that he did not see the point of having any opposition deputies in the national parliament.  
 
Georgia on their mind
#  The Guardian,
# Thursday April 1 2004

Quote from billy_bonney on Aug 17^th, 2008, 12:22am:

 
Well, seein's we were someplace we didn't belong, not much we could do.  Maybe with the knowledge of said buildup, we should have had talks with the Russians about it, but because we were challenging them, which maybe was the cause of said buildup, we couldn't do nothing, and now short of war with Russia, we can still do nothing.

Quote from RED on Aug 17^th, 2008, 10:04am:

 
You're right, we should have been in our own bathroom, shaving and minding our own buisiness. Damn us for trying to have good relations with other countries!

Quote from Neo_Harry on Aug 17^th, 2008, 10:12am:

 
Good relations does not mean having military advisors or American weaponry there.  Good relations would be to make sure people were there to negotiate good relations with their powerful neighbors, especially since Georgia's neighbor is not South Carolina last time I checked.

Quote from RED on Aug 17^th, 2008, 11:23am:

 
 
Yeah. Russia could have stayed within its own borders, and not invaded Georgia's  
"sphere of influence".  

Quote from Paris on Aug 17^th, 2008, 5:31am:

 
So, Georgia was torturing, and starving, its citizens? Where is the UN Resolution condemning Georgia?
 
Quote:

 
Bull. More of  the Russian economy is being controlled by the Kremlin each year.
 
Quote:

 
Do you know the difference between defensive weapons, and offensive weapons?
 
Quote:

 
US weapons will be used to shoot down missles in the case of an attack.
 
Russian missles will be used to attack.
 
See the difference?
 
Quote:

 
Not as long as they have been in Europe protecting your asses.
 
Quote:

 
Typical of cowards.
 

Quote from Caterina on Aug 17^th, 2008, 7:44am:

 
 
 
Just stop with the propaganda machine bublichka....we don't buy it, unless you people will allow independant investigators into the area who can determine the truth don't bother, your blood sucker Putin is fostering dangerous madmen in Iran to devlop nukes, there is no greater threat to world peace than that.
 
 
Billy